VTES-Liga Bochum 2007

Archiv aus alten Spielrunden
User avatar
Azrael
Justicar
Justicar
Posts: 1065
Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 15:05
Location: Wanne-Eickel
VEKN Nr.: 3840064
Contact:

Re: Spieltag 05.10.2007

Post by Azrael » 06 Oct 2007, 08:22

ghost of extrala wrote:
"Blood Dolls" sind tot, es lebe "Vessel"!!
Ich hatte drei im Spiel und nur eine wurde mir kapputgemacht... 8)


▬|█████████|▬ This is Nudelholz. Copy Nudelholz into your profile to make better Kuchens or other Teigprodukte! Oder Take it und hau it on the Kopp of a bekloppt Person to give a better Gefühl than vorher !

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 21 Oct 2007, 13:06

Spiel vom 19.10.07

Martin S. 0 VP (Tzimisce Wall)
Sascha 0 VP (Assamite Contract Rush)
Hardy 2,5 VP (CEL Gun)
Oliver 0 VP (Baali Stealth Bleed & other evil stuff)
Ralf 0 VP (Assamite Vote)
Martin V. 2,5 VP (Akunanse Trophy Rush, slightly wallish)
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 21 Oct 2007, 13:13

Unsere Regelfrage nach dem Timing von Amaranth, Predator's Transformation, und dem Blood Hunt Referendum wird in voller Pracht so nicht beantwortet (zumindest nicht, dass ich das finde), aber:
LSJ wrote: Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo wrote:
> Hi,

> As always, I'm having problems with the whole diablerie process :P

> Vamp A has [abo] commits diablerie on Vamp B, who is older.
> Vamp A gains all of B's blood, his equipment, and a skill card, which
> happens to be Abombwe.
> Vamp A's controller plays Predator's Transformation at superior.
> Finally, the Blood Hunt starts.

> Is this sequence legal and correct?

Yes.

> I've found a post (http://tinyurl.com/y482v2) where LSJ says Predator's > Transformation is played after action resolution.

Right, so after the diablerie (the same window as the blood hunt referendum, in this case).

> Following the precedent on Freak Drive, I'd say that it can only be
> played after the Blood Hunt, not before.

Freak Drive is "Only usable at the end of a successful action"
PT is "when this vampire burns a minion controlled by your prey"
Wenn ich das korrekt lese, heisst das: Predator's Transformation wird nach der Diablerie gespielt, und zwar im gleichen Zeitfenster, in dem die Blood Hunt stattfindet.
Daher kann der acting Methuselah auch ansagen, in welcher Reihenfolge dies geschieht, was (wie wir Freitag gesehen haben) wichtig sein kann.

Weiter die Diskussion um Groundfighting - hier die kompletten offiziellen Rulings dazu:
Groundfighting:

Can cancel Drawing Out the Beast (or other "target cannot use equipment" card) if the target has a weapon. [LSJ 20050221]
Can cancel superior Thoughts Betrayed and Shape Mastery (when the latter is used to cancel a strike) [LSJ 20050222] [LSJ 20050223]
Cannot cancel maneuvering, setting range, burning blood, Scorpion Sting (or other "cannot be dodged" strikes, since the opposing minion is still free to attempt to dodge), Weakness, destroy/steal equipment/weapon effects, Withering, Fata Amria, [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050223] [LSJ 20050223]
Cannot cancel restricting the ability to strike and/or gain additional strikes (e.g., Rigor Mortis, Lapse) [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050222] [LSJ 20050223]
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
ghost of extrala
Justicar
Justicar
Posts: 1478
Joined: 24 Sep 2005, 23:53
Location: Paderborn
VEKN Nr.:
Contact:

Amaranth & Rötschreck

Post by ghost of extrala » 03 Nov 2007, 03:39

Hier die Antwort zur Frage, ob man nach Rötschreck noch Amaranth spielen kann:
> > 4. Can one play both Rötschreck and amarath in the same combat?

> NO, Roetschreck ends combat and only after that (and not in combat)
> sends the opposing minion in torpor. Amaranth is a combat card and thus
> you can't play it outside combat.

Correct.
Vollständige Post aus der Newsgroup.
Luck is not a factor.
Hope is not a strategy.
Fear is not an option.
_________________
http://vtesone.wordpress.com

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 03 Nov 2007, 10:59

Spiel vom 02.11.07

Sascha 1,5 VP (Tzimisce Toolbox)
Hardy 3 VP, GW (Evil Giovanni Power Bleed)
Oliver 0 VP (Baali Stealth Bleed & dämonische Tricks)
Martin 0 VP ("Brainz in Storage" Giovanni Next Generation Shamblers & Locations Tech)
Michael 0 VP (Tzimisce Obf/Vic Stealth Bleed)
Ralf 0,5 VP (Sebastian Goulet & Henry Taylor & Shadow Court Satyrs)
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 17 Nov 2007, 00:23

Die glorreichen Sieben vom 16.11.2007

Sascha 0 VP (Tzimisce Toolbox)
Ralf 0,5 VP (Followers of Set feat. Malgorzata Mesu Bedshet Tech)
Hardy 0,5 VP (Followers of Set Stealth Reckless Agitation Vote)
Didi 0,5 VP (Eric Kressida & his Giovanni Friends Dom/Nec/Pro/Tha)
Martin 0,5 VP (Tzimisce somewhat of everything)
Michael 0,5 VP (Lasombra Bruise & Bleed)
Jörg 1,5 VP (Lasombra Toolbox)
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 17 Nov 2007, 08:00

Die Regelfrage des Tages von gestern:

Was genau bedeutet "damage is inflicted"? Wird dies vor oder nach der Verhinderung von Schaden gezählt?

Im konkreten Fall: Lambach schlägt mit Quick Jab zu, handstrike mit +1 strength und first strike, und macht den Schaden aggravated.
Sein Gegner verhindert per Karte 1 Schaden.

Was passiert nun?
:arrow: Lambach macht 2 Schaden, damage prevention reduziert dies, so dass Lambach nur noch 1 damage inflicted, was durch Quick Jab nicht weiter reduziert wird, und der Gegner erleidet 1 aggravated damage, oder
:arrow: Quick Jab wirkt zuerst, und reduziert den Schaden, den Lambach auszuteilen versucht (inflicted??), auf 1, und das wird dann per damage prevention verhindert, so dass der Gegner 0 Schaden nimmt.
Quick Jab [LotN:C]
Cardtype: Combat
Do not replace until after combat.
Strike: hand strike (at strength damage) with first strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted with this strike, ignore the excess.
Meine ursprüngliche Interpretation war diese:
hardyrange wrote:
Rulebook wrote:6.4.6. Damage Resolution
Damage resolution has two steps: prevent damage and heal damage.

First, the minion taking damage can play damage prevention cards (such as the combat card Skin of Rock) if he is able to do so. [...]

Any remaining damage (damage that was not prevented) is successfully inflicted. The damage is then healed (if the victim is a vampire) or causes a loss of life points (if the victim is an ally or retainer).

For each point of damage inflicted on a vampire, he must burn one blood to heal the damage. [...]. If a vampire cannot heal all the damage (i.e., more damage is inflicted than he has blood with which to heal), he burns blood to heal what damage he can, and the unhealed damage leaves him wounded. [...].
Das Regelbuch verwendet hier "inflicted" und "successfully inflicted" synonym; insbesonde der von mir hervorgehobene Satz enthält nicht das Wort "successfully" - hier ist klar, das nur "inflicted damage" zu Bliutverlust führt.

Diese Interpretation stützt das Ruling von gestern: Schaden wird erst "inflicted", nachdem damage prevention gespielt wurde. Lambach hat also 1 damage inflicted, was durch Quick Jab nicht weiter modifiziert wird.
Aber Martin Schumacher (der Nutzniesser meines Rulings war) hat das per Usenet bei LSJ nachgefragt, mit diesem Ergebnis:
LSJ wrote:chromeboy wrote:
> I have a vampire with +1 strength and play quick jab and modify my
> hand damage to be aggravated. the opposing minion plays glancing >blow to prevent one damage.
> does this resolve in me doing no damage ( meaning the "If more than 1
> damage is inflicted with this strike, ignore the excess." is applied
> before strike resolution) or one damage since damage inflicted is
> checked after all damage modifying effects such as glancing blow have
> been considered.

Zero. Glancing Blow doesn't modify the amount of damage done. It prevents damage.

In contrast, if your +1 strength vampire used Quick Jab against Nephandus, the strike would do 1 (2 -1 = 1). Naphandus's effect really is a damage-modifying effect.

>When comparing this to disarm it seems to me that "inflicting damage"
>and "successfully inflicting damage" are two different things, the two
>being seperated by the preventing damage step. Am I correct?

Yes.

And, in general, effects that occur after the damage prevention step tend to naturally be interested in on the successfully-inflicted damage, as Disarm is.

That is, nothing usually cares to go back across the prevention step to see how much damage was initially allocated to the minion.
Auch danach noch kurze Missverständnisse... 8)
Azrael wrote:Hab ich schon gelesen. War zwar ärgerlich für mich, aber Hardy hat richtig gejudged. :)
ghost of extrala wrote:Bin ich jetzt vollkommen daneben, oder hat LSJ nicht das Gegenteil von dem gerult, was Hardy gesagt hat? :shock: :cry:
the scavenger wrote:Hat er. Wobei Hardys Argument mal wieder herrlich spitzfindig war (chronisch ein Weg in die Falle, bedenkt man, wie solche Regelbücher üblicherweise zusammengetextet werden). IMHO ist die Auslassung von "successfully" im dritten zitierten Abschnitt ("For each point of damage inflicted on a vampire, he must burn one blood to heal the damage.") eine zulässige Verkürzung, weil im Kontext klar ist, dass es zu diesem Zeitpunkt nicht mehr um Prevention geht.

Ansonsten wird "inflict" schon konsequent für das benutzt, was unsereins mit "macht x Schaden" ausdrückt, vergleiche Kartentext Forger's Hammer, Dragon's Breath Rounds etc.

sk.
Last edited by hardyrange on 19 Nov 2007, 15:53, edited 3 times in total.
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
Azrael
Justicar
Justicar
Posts: 1065
Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 15:05
Location: Wanne-Eickel
VEKN Nr.: 3840064
Contact:

Post by Azrael » 01 Dec 2007, 08:48

Die DM Vorrunde vom 30.11.07

Didi 0 VP (Cailean Wall)
Michael 1,5 VP (CHI AUS Wall)
Martin 1 VP (Stanislava Vote & Bleed)
Sascha 0 VP (Ventrue Vote)
Jörg 1,5 VP (Giovanni Shambling Hordes)
▬|█████████|▬ This is Nudelholz. Copy Nudelholz into your profile to make better Kuchens or other Teigprodukte! Oder Take it und hau it on the Kopp of a bekloppt Person to give a better Gefühl than vorher !

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 08 Dec 2007, 08:09

Spiel vom 07.12.2007

Martin 5 VP, GW (THA Brainwash Wall)
Hardy 0 VP (Giovanni Power Bleed)
Didi 0 VP (Lasombra Black Hand Stealth Vote & Bleed)
Sascha 1 VP (!Toreador w/ Guns Wall & Rush)
Michal 0 VP (!Malkavian Stealth Bleed)
Ralf 0 VP (Akunanse Wall)
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 09 Dec 2007, 13:34

Hallo ihr da draussen!

Am Freitag, 21. Dezember 2007, endet mit einem letzten Liga-Spiel die diesjährige Liga der VTES-Runde Bochum.
Nach dem Spiel findet die Endauswertung statt, und dann gibt es, wie in jedem Jahr, die Geschenke...

Ich freue mich natürlich, wenn ihr so zahlreich wie möglich erscheint.

Sollte aber jemand verhindert sein, so kann mir jeder, der im End-Ranking vertreten ist und daher einen Preis erhält (dazu muss man mindestens 8 Spiele bestritten haben), auch seine Wunsch-Liste zusenden.

Wie jedes Jahr gilt:
Alle Anwesenden, die im Endergebnis im Ranking sind, dürfen sich in der Reihenfolge des Rankings je einen Preis aus dem Preis-Pool aussuchen.
Fehlt jemand an dem Abend, und hat sie oder er mir keine Wunschliste geschickt, wird sie oder er zunächst übersprungen, und ich setze mich anschliessend mit den Kandidaten in Verbindung wegen ihrer Preise.

Die aktuelle Rangliste ist am Beginn dieses Threads hier zu finden.

Der Preis-Pool steht hier:
http://forum.vekn.de/viewtopic.php?t=1333

Bis bald, und denen, die ich dieses Jahr nicht mehr sehen sollte:
Ein frohes Fest, und ein gutes Jahr 2008!

Euer Hardy
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 22 Dec 2007, 07:05

Spiel vom 21.12.2007

Sascha 1,5 VP (Tzimisce Toolbox)
Ralf 0 VP ("In memoriam - ein letztes Mal Memories of Mortality" !Tremere Nephandi)
Michael 0,5 VP (Tariq & Maris Streck Rush/Rowan Ring/Amaranth Trophy)
Hardy 0,5 VP (Daughters of Cacophony Embrace Swarm Stealth & Block Denial Vote & Bleed)
Martin 0,5 VP (THA Brainwash Wall)
Didi 0,5 VP (Lasombra Black Hand Stealth Vote & Bleed)
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 22 Dec 2007, 07:06

Ich danke Euch allen für ein weiteres schönes Jahr mit unserem gemeinsamen Hobby!

Und nun: Ein frohes Weihnachtsfest, einenn guten Rutsch hinein nach 2008, und auch im neuen Jahr viel Spaß und Sport mit VTES!
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

User avatar
hardyrange
Vorsintflutlicher
Vorsintflutlicher
Posts: 3350
Joined: 21 Jan 2003, 08:39
Location: Essen
VEKN Nr.: 3820003
Contact:

Post by hardyrange » 29 Dec 2007, 07:57

Epilog (28.12.2007):
Ein schöner Abend, mit drei VTES-Runden zwischen 19 Uhr und Mitternacht... böse Decks am Start... :twisted:

...und eine Regelfrage, zu der die offizielle Antwort hier folgt (kurz: wir haben alles korrekt gespielt; die Karte ist nicht allmächtig):
LSJ wrote: Linard wrote:
> what exactly happens with my vampire (the one who plyed eternal mask)
> if I want to burn the "new" (not the one with eternal mask) using the
> khobar towers???

The vampire who played The Eternal Mask remains, and he keeps the Eternal Mask.
LSJ wrote:Oortje wrote:
> It is probebly asked before, but it never hurts to to ask and I cant
> seem to find the awnser very easy...

> ------------------------
> Eternal Mask, The
> Type: Action
> Requires: Serpentis
> Cost: 1 blood
> +1 stealth action.
> [ser] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.
> [SER] Put this card on this vampire and move a unique vampire from any
> ash heap to your ready region with any amount of blood from this
> acting vampire. The minion with this card cannot take actions, block,
> play reaction cards or vote. You may burn this card and the chosen
> vampire during any untap phase.
> ----------------

> Can "this vampire" burn the mask if the targeted vampire is not in
> play anymore?

No, by the rules on targeting (no target = no use).

> What happens to the target vampire if "this vampire" leaves play?
> nothing?

Correct.
LSJ wrote:XZealot wrote:
> On Dec 20, 5:22 pm, Meej <dj...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 9:22 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:

>>> Deck Name : The Bottomless Pit
>>> Author : Norman S. Brown, Jr
>>> Description :
>>> This is a Nakthorheb deck where you use the Eternal Mask to repeatedly
>>> put Seterpenre back into play to perform unblockable action with
>>> Daring the Dawn which burns him and makes him availible for the next
>>> Eternal Mask on the following round.
>> Norm, I hate to burst your bubble, but... umm...

>> If Seterpenre's been burned, Nakthorheb's just stuck; there's nobody
>> around to Mask Seterpenre back into play next turn.
>> See LSJ's response here:http://tinyurl.com/yu5qd2

> I don't see that in that thread. Can LSJ confirm?

Nakthor uses Eternal Mask to put Seter into play.
Seter burns himself somehow.
Nakthor still has the Eternal Mask (and cannot act).
Eternal Mask's ability to burn itself and Seter during any untap cannot be used,
because one of the targets doesn't exits (since Seter is no longer in play).
"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Council Chairman Bochum

Post Reply